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Your local congregation could conceivably be appointed a progressive pastor before it fully separates from the U.M.C. Only a repetitive chronological study of the Word will open the eyes of a progressive church and as long as the Sunday school literature treads lightly on scripture and stays away from fishing in the deep then my dear friends I’m afraid we will only become bait ourselves. Comment by Donald E Null on January 17, 2020 at 7:04 pm. I have to say that I too will be leaving this church. See that you do not despise one of these little ones. Comment by Jeff on January 17, 2020 at 4:46 am, >> “[Clergy will] have to be aligned with your denomination on this issue or risk violating conscience or covenant.”. Our beliefs and practices regarding same-sex marriage finally revealed this. Traditionalists realize they are in the minority in America, and have decided to capitulate. Currently, the most widespread body of Methodists is the United Methodist Church, which is the second largest Protestant denomination in the United States, with 18 million Methodists worldwide. For some reason, in the UMC this has manifested in a fight about same sex marriage. Trust in these procedural matters in our churches is dismally low. But as a pastor, I want to also assure my people that we will continue to love and welcome every person who is a part of our community, regardless of their position on this or any other matter. The move could hasten the long-expected breakup of the UMC over differing approaches to LGBTQ inclusion. I stayed in the Methodist church, after ‘searching’, to be sure of my faith. This is sad. Stay up to Date with the Latest Conservative News, Pro-Lifers Concerned Supreme Court May Strike Down Texas Abortion Law →. For clergy: Choosing is different for clergy. “I’m trading my sorrows . Its usually the other way around. And God blessed them. Yeah. Comment by Paul knag on January 17, 2020 at 9:54 pm. Comment by Robert Hogan on June 21, 2020 at 10:21 pm. In the traditionalist denomination, I expect clergy to hear “you must not” for all of the above. Let them find their own road to hell if they don’t repent. But there is one huge difference in my friends than most homosexuals. JJ Warren of the Upper New York Conference … Comment by Ralph Weitz on January 19, 2020 at 8:25 am. I am 82 and tired and sad,also. In most of these churches, the margin to separate will be a simple majority (determined by Church Council decision). I have a friend who says “you traditionalists just want to stand up and speak your prophetic word and then go home and watch television” … the progressives have treated this as a revolution and they are willing to sacrifice in order to “change” the church… that is what we would have to overcome. That is a devastating reality for any pastors who love their local church or annual conference but may not be aligned with them on this one issue. This single sentence explains why we are where we are as a denomination today. Everyone will have to choose. They understand what they read and practice their faith above all things. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 ESV We are merely paying the bills! I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”. This whole mess has such far reaching consequences. Most members will be very uneasy about it. The position my church holds in common is that Christ has died, Christ is risen, and Christ will come again. Its also unfair to ask pastors who have been in the Methodist church for decades, and who adhere to scripture, to stay in the new church that will undoubtedly repeal key elements of the book of discipline or risk losing their pensions. We are governed by conferencing, not by a hierarchical ladder. As a practical matter, do you really think that those traditional clergy who stay will do it so they can advance in the hierarchy? Comment by Elaine Miller on January 28, 2020 at 8:07 pm. And we hold theological and moral stances that are not merely at odds, but mutually exclusive. To fight and call out their neighbors. Comment by Judith Foster on January 18, 2020 at 11:13 am. 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, After the United Methodist Church agrees to divide, a new Global Methodist Church will form for traditionalist conferences, congregations and persons to join, it was announced today.. Too bad for them. We read, under “Collective Bargaining,” the following: “We support the right of public and private (including farm, government, institutional, and domestic) employees and employers to organize for collective bargaining into unions and other groups … Perhaps God is creating a place for Bible believing Christians can find refuge and a faith home in a world that increasingly hates us and persecutes us. Learn how your comment data is processed. Lauren Davis. Of course on group is being asked to leave and one is getting to stay; just because the remnant UMC will be different than before, it will still be the easy default and will be the UMC. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. Since despite all the talk of the magisterium it still comes down to one man…. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Comment by Pudentiana on January 17, 2020 at 6:21 pm. Isaiah 41:11-12 ESV I’ve never been to a church that celebrates divorce. The United Methodist Church teaches that pornography is "about violence, degradation, exploitation, and coercion" and "deplore[s] all forms of commercialization, abuse, and exploitation of sex." Maybe the new traditionalist denomination is the start of the revival? We know in our hearts what is true if we profess Him. Required fields are marked *. Under the section “Dismantling Racism” you see this… Here is the list of “do’s and don’ts” for racism as listed on the… But if you like honesty, then continue to read on. Psalm 127:3 ESV Genesis 1:26 ESV The Methodist church is unscriptural in all of these essential prerequisites. There is no powerful corrective available. Secondly, he said he was confident that the African Conferences would never allow the LGTBQ agenda to win. They are very clever. Unfortunately for him and his far-left supporters, that was the exact opposite of…. I am ashamed of United Methodists bishops and pastors who lack the grace to abide by the Book of Discipline. In other words, all individuals are of worth to God. These are men who make a choice the follow the Lord’s teaching. It’s also important to remember that traditionalists are conceding what they never had:  United Methodism’s bureaucracy. Praise God I left the … You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. If the faithful were in control would the Bishops be so out of control? Love is the real question. My only experience are the small churches in my annual conference – most of which lean traditional, but have been served by liberal pastors for decades. My name is Molly Troutman. Beyond love your neighbor is there any biblical justification that the progressive side has used (tried to use) to refute what IS said in scripture ? Comment by JR on January 17, 2020 at 11:39 am, Comment by John Smith on January 18, 2020 at 8:12 am. David Pawson, a great Bible teacher, said it best….”the church follows the world, 15 yearse behind”. Clearly, the Bible supports Israel, God’s chosen people: Genesis 12:3 ESV Some think this process will destroy a lot of small Methodist congregations and they are probably correct. But here’s what the Bible says: When a man is with a man as a woman it’s an Abomination to the Lord. LORD help us… Satan is alive and working overtime. 63 years I’ve lived on this Earth and I’m I have seen alot. Comment by Renee on February 16, 2020 at 8:04 am. The best way for Bishops to be proper shepherds is when it is hard, persecution hard. John 16:21 ESV Your whole faith is hinged on one man, one woman marriage?!? While progressives have declared their resistance to ratified UMC legislation, more traditionalists have said they’re ‘tired of the struggle.’”. I would agree that many of us are sick and tired of having to fend off attacks against scripture from the liberal, unorthodox crowd, but I have too much invested into my church to walk away and start anew. What would it change? But here’s what the Bible says: Yet he went with the crowd, the progressive movement without digging any further and washed his hands of the Truth. All Rights Reserved. Thanks, Comment by Should I Stay and should I go... on January 17, 2020 at 9:39 am, Comment by Carol Hill on March 20, 2020 at 11:09 am. 5. The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. We put our full trust in His grace. We know when enough is enough. I don’t agree with your firm point on theology, and that’s something that we can agree to disagree about (without needing to be hard on each other about it). The United Methodist Church announced a proposal Friday to split the denomination over what it called "fundamental differences" regarding its beliefs on same-sex marriage and LGBTQ … And that’s really the basic reason why we should split the church. What is GC votes to keep the UMC as it is with the traditional plan “winning” the day. From the orthodox view this is stupid. Sorry. So why would they give up most assets? and they will be my people.”, Comment by Gary Bebop on January 20, 2020 at 7:52 pm, Comment by Traditional Methodist Woman on January 20, 2020 at 11:53 am. That can position them as the “remain” group and the traditionalists as the “leaving” group. Comment by Jw on January 17, 2020 at 8:33 am, Hi, first time commenting but regular reader of this site. Indiana may or may not stay with a post-separation UMC. There was no actual Bible learning, no Holy Spirit, no miracles, no testimonies (other that two I heard in private), and no talk about what the Lord has done. The Church is people who believe the Bible is the Word. Will the new denomination learn? Man didn’t evolve from a single-cell organism: I’ve learned a tremendous amount about church history, the Bible and Christian teaching/belief/scriptures, and how to live the Christian life through Catholic radio. Yes? Great care is being taken. So one seems to talking about the possibility that General Conference will vote in the affirmative on the much publicized plan. The course was entitled, “Wicked Problems.” As the professional expert on ‘wickedness’ I initially resented this intrusion into my linguistic territory. Not sure the fight is winnable. But I hope traditional Methodists will oppose this resolution and vote it down. (Yes, they will eventually answer to God for their shepherding. My mind immediately jumped to the story of Abraham and Isaac. I use that word because that is the word they use for themselves. I have a few friends who are my age and homosexual. When traditionalists are accused of “hate” speech for saying, “From the beginning God made them male and female. So you must also oppose divorce, because that’s an obvious offshoot of that doctrine and was also specifically called out by Jesus. 28 Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” declares the Lord. BUT, Westside is NOT a ‘mega’ church. I knew I was missing something but I didn’t know what, yet. New Hymnals, new Bible interpretation— no thank you. Why do we need His grace? But if there’s a discernable traditional element, the church may want that vote taken. But if he would have only studied the scriptures of the Old Testament (since New Testament was being written before his very eyes) perhaps he could have seen the Truth standing in front of him. I agree… a friend on mine is a devout convert to LMS or so I thought. this statement: “For laity: The single issue of same-sex marriage has been raised to such a level that as a church member, you may feel that you must go to a church that aligns with your personal beliefs. I fear greatly for my home church having to deal with the proposed split in the UMC. Sam, I’m in agreement with you. Comment by JR on January 17, 2020 at 8:34 am. In America, it happened with eugenics, prohibition, abortion, and same-sex marriage. 29 “In those days people will no longer say, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” God’s word! These are men who do not lie. This piece is honest and raw, so be forewarned. I made with their ancestors Will you go to the new progressive Methodist denomination, the new traditionalist one, or something else? Disobedience has grown without ceasing. I have been a member of several protestant churches during my life as a church soloist but my home is now with the UMC. Happiness comes and goes. Martin Nicholas of the Houston area, an IRD board member who … I’m just an old man. Comment by Margaret Ingram on January 19, 2020 at 11:55 am. Comment by Psalti on January 17, 2020 at 7:15 pm, “When orthodoxy becomes optional eventually it becomes proscribed”, Comment by JR on January 21, 2020 at 9:12 am, “The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.” – GK Chesterton, Comment by Dina Harper on May 14, 2020 at 10:46 am. That seems entirely inequitable. But none of them are first in importance. While many reports say traditionalists are leaving the UMC, and some proposals even frame it this way, that doesn’t represent our reality. We believe the death penalty denies the power of Christ to redeem, restore and transform all human beings… we oppose the death penalty (capital punishment) and urge its elimination from all criminal codes. The Bible teaches us not to be worldly, but to be transformed: Romans 12:2 ESV And, why has this definition Jesus gave marriage been deemed irrelevant by many in this age, thus reducing the relevancy of Jesus in this age? Read your Bible. Genesis 1:27 ESV They realize people would reject their ultimate goals if they laid out the truth in the beginning. Ps 107:1. Your observation about the beurocracy of the UMC is brilliant because it is, admittedly, so obvious. This is a warning. Seems like poor theology to me, but I’m just a guy on the internet. It certainly has not been the case, at least in the short term, for the presbyterians, lutherans, and episcopalians. Once the deterioration starts, it will continue. Luther discovered what the Wesley’s knew.. and he posted his thesis on the door, for all to see. We are seeing the falling away of 2nd thessalonians 2:3 before our very eyes. and with the people of Judah. We affirm that God’s grace is available to all. The differing opinions held by church leaders about the LGBTQ community may permanently change its structure. Well, some do of course, but there is a lot of debate going on at the corporate level. The progressives will fight to the death about an agenda. We attend the same church and pray and read the bible like a “Christian” should. There’s good news, though: resurrection has happened! A disturbing tendency I have seen in those who stand in the opposite side of the political spectrum than my own is that they claim that there is this vast unnamed political agenda on the left. “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”. The deceived, fringe element should not become the UMC. You do realize that it is highly unlikely that more than 3 or 4 US annual conferences will have a 57% majority to leave, right? Ultimately the small traditional church will close with all their assets stripped. Comment by JR on January 16, 2020 at 3:27 pm. I am beginning to believe that orthodox Methodists should oppose this “grand bargain”. It will most likely rip that community in two. As to the UMC, the outsiders are not defining the United Methodists as traditionalists or progressives, orthodox, or whatever. 4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? United Methodism’s name and logo may remain, but they’ll represent a different institution. God is in control. Then to Noah and the Flood. I’m impressed! So far, most proposals have the progressives and institutionalists retaining most UMC assets. If GC goes with this protocol, they need to nail down exactly what bishops, annual conferences, district superintendents, councils, and pastors are not allowed to procedurally deny to a local church. But none of them are first in importance.”. This split does not go with what he said, either. Though church members may be able to be part of a denomination with which they disagree, I don’t expect clergy to have that same luxury. It is so far off the ‘path’. The website UMC.org is the main portal of practically all United Methodist Churches today. Is it love to leave people in their sin? I am a United Methodist who happens to believe in the in the full inclusion of LGTBQ persons in the church. Bye bye, rebels! Good morning and welcome to our online service. The UMC has done a lot of good work in our world. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Also, how can a church say that God is simultaneously for and against something? Comment by Scott on January 20, 2020 at 10:50 am. Under the proposed Protocol, among other proposals, The United Methodist Church is about to cease to exist. I am over here thinking, what about heaven?

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